> Rant anónimo 1: contradicción en términos. <

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1	De: JJ Fecha: 2006-12-05 12:22
En realidad, una personalidad online no es tan diferente de una real. Y tener un nick que incluya la raíz "anónim-" no implica el anonimato, no más que el nick JJ o el nick zifra.

2

De: Malambo Fecha: 2006-12-05 13:05

De acuerdo con los nicks. Estos apodos terminan definiendo a la persona que hay detrás de la máquina. Dudo, sin embargo, en que una personalidad on line deba ser siempre similar a la "real". Incluso en ámbitos no-digitales nuestros patrones de conducta suelen adaptarse al contexto. Sin llegar a sugerir ningún trastorno de disociación en la personalidad ;·), me parece que todo depende mucho de la jerarquía que ocupe la persona en la comunidad y del tipo de actividades en las que esta se desempeñe. Y ahí sí. Creo que la cantidad de cosas que uno puede hacer en internet es muy inferior a las que hace en la Vida Real(R).

3

De: Nat Fecha: 2006-12-05 13:46

¿Por qué damos por sentado que internet no es parte de la vida real? Acaso no estamos materialmente una cantidad de horas sentados frente a la máquina?. Acaso las máquinas no están ahí, ocupando su lugar en el mundo? Acaso no están ahí -en forma de bits o lo que sea- nuestros textos, imágenes, fotos, sonidos, etc., etc. Un nick no es más que una forma de nombrarnos. En algunas partes nos llaman por nuestro nombre, en otras por un apodo que inventaron los que nos rodean (y muchas veces aunque nos ven durante años no saben nuestro nombre), y en internet por un "apodo" que nosotros mismos -a veces los demás- inventamos. Sinceramente -quizás sea mi ignorancia- no termino de entender por qué se disocia a internet del "mundo real". Acabaré por pensar que las horas que pasó por aquí, no existieron jamás... Nfer, Anónima, felicidades por la nueva criatura.

4	De: Chivita Fecha: 2006-12-05 16:48
Anonima... "Solo por hoy no te preocupes"... dice un precepto sabio... No te vuelvas eco de las desafinaciones circundantes...y sé quien quieras ser con el nombre que asi elijas, pues eso es lo valioso en ti, con el nombre que te manifiestes, sigues siendo tu misma! Besitos de "Chivi y la de los plumeritos"

5	De: Chivita Fecha: 2006-12-05 16:50
Mi querida Nfer quiero saludarte a ti tambien poe este nuevo logro de ambas. Admirable como han crecido!!! Las quiero amén de la distancia. Cariños Chivita en cubierta! jajaja

6	De: fernand0 Fecha: 2006-12-06 00:40
El anonimato real no existe (o es muy difícil de conseguir, y no siempre vale la pena). Y, efectiavamente, cual es la diferencia entre llamarse 'anónima' y 'pepito'?

7

De: Nfer Fecha: 2006-12-06 02:40

Para evitar suspicacias (que siempre anda alguna suelta por ahí, y como no pueden existir sin un sustrato, la adhieren al primero que pasa...), prefiero abstenerme de opinar de lo que Anónima ha empezado a contarnos hoy. Dicho esto (que no diré cosa alguna), me referiré a lo que dice Nat. Nat, me he hecho esas mismas preguntas muchas veces. En mi caso hasta el nick me lo tenía preparado desde mi adolescencia, cuando Internet era impensable: Nfer, la bella bella bella mujer de la novela de Waltari, fue en cierto modo el ideal que nunca alcancé ni alcanzaré, ni quiero alcanzar... Ahora tengo la oportunidad de ser Nfer - sólo en el nick - pero tengo también la oportunidad de hacer lo que no hago en "la vida real" como comentar poesía, hacer bromas, soñar despierta y poder contarlo, y por sobre todo...conocer gente. Ah, sí, me dirán, "gente hay y hubo cerca tuyo desde antes de la internet". Y yo les respondo: como antes de la internet, hay gente con mucha proximidad física, por compartir el ámbito de trabajo, el ómnibus, las reuniones familiares y con las cuales no tengo ningún tipo de vínculo emocional. En este espacio "virtual" he generado vínculos estrechos con más de cuatro personas, de las cuales algunas se hicieron "reales" en mi casa, y a otras las espero con ansias. Este debe ser uno de los tópicos que nunca discutimos con Anónima, y tal vez no discutamos, que cada uno es como es... Pero el estar frente a la máquina, el teclear un texto para luego encontrar una respuesta, me completa un aspecto de mi personalidad que ignoraba siquiera que lo tenía. Pero vamos con calma, recuerden que hemos parido hace poco, y el parto nos ha dejado algo sensibles... ¡Chiviplus! vos sos el ejemplo viviente de alguien cuya existencia conocía y con muy buenas referencias "reales", pero de no ser por aquel Foro ¿recuerdas? jamás hubiéramos trabado una amistad tan sólida... Fernand0, el nick es como el apodo: suele decir más que el nombre. Al menos en Argentina. Pero ese es otro tema que necesita del diccionario castellano-castellano que constantemente actualizamos con Anónima, lo dejamos para otro día. Que es un tema no menor.

8

De: Nfer Fecha: 2006-12-06 02:40

Para evitar suspicacias (que siempre anda alguna suelta por ahí, y como no pueden existir sin un sustrato, la adhieren al primero que pasa...), prefiero abstenerme de opinar de lo que Anónima ha empezado a contarnos hoy. Dicho esto (que no diré cosa alguna), me referiré a lo que dice Nat. Nat, me he hecho esas mismas preguntas muchas veces. En mi caso hasta el nick me lo tenía preparado desde mi adolescencia, cuando Internet era impensable: Nfer, la bella bella bella mujer de la novela de Waltari, fue en cierto modo el ideal que nunca alcancé ni alcanzaré, ni quiero alcanzar... Ahora tengo la oportunidad de ser Nfer - sólo en el nick - pero tengo también la oportunidad de hacer lo que no hago en "la vida real" como comentar poesía, hacer bromas, soñar despierta y poder contarlo, y por sobre todo...conocer gente. Ah, sí, me dirán, "gente hay y hubo cerca tuyo desde antes de la internet". Y yo les respondo: como antes de la internet, hay gente con mucha proximidad física, por compartir el ámbito de trabajo, el ómnibus, las reuniones familiares y con las cuales no tengo ningún tipo de vínculo emocional. En este espacio "virtual" he generado vínculos estrechos con más de cuatro personas, de las cuales algunas se hicieron "reales" en mi casa, y a otras las espero con ansias. Este debe ser uno de los tópicos que nunca discutimos con Anónima, y tal vez no discutamos, que cada uno es como es... Pero el estar frente a la máquina, el teclear un texto para luego encontrar una respuesta, me completa un aspecto de mi personalidad que ignoraba siquiera que lo tenía. Pero vamos con calma, recuerden que hemos parido hace poco, y el parto nos ha dejado algo sensibles... ¡Chiviplus! vos sos el ejemplo viviente de alguien cuya existencia conocía y con muy buenas referencias "reales", pero de no ser por aquel Foro ¿recuerdas? jamás hubiéramos trabado una amistad tan sólida... Fernand0, el nick es como el apodo: suele decir más que el nombre. Al menos en Argentina. Pero ese es otro tema que necesita del diccionario castellano-castellano que constantemente actualizamos con Anónima, lo dejamos para otro día. Que es un tema no menor.

9

De: Chivita Fecha: 2006-12-06 12:21

Holitas mi Reina Nferchus!! me da alegría saludar y saludar a todos porque soy un bichito algo educado (conste que dije solo "algo" jajaja) Bue, les cuento mi anécdota de nick Cuando empezé a pulular por los chat mi nick era AIRE justamente me lo había puesto porque nadie me podia ver pero era "esencial" como cualquiera de nosotros (porque por algo estamos y nos conocemos o nos contactamos)... Y siquieren algo más trillado aún...decia "soy Aire, porque como dice Saint Exupery en El Principito, "lo esencial es invisible a los ojos".. Así...conoci al que hoy es mi esposo! jaja vaya, vaya ironía de la vida...no? pero esa es otraaaaaa historia Besucos chivescos!!!

10

De: Almada Fecha: 2006-12-06 12:59

Anónima?? sí, ya es hora de que des la cara ante nosotros! ;p ... ya entiendo lo que me comentabas ayer. Por cierto, concuerdo con lo que dicen JJ y fernando0, es muy simple el tema del nick, si bien algunos estudiosos ya le habrán dado vueltas y vueltas al tema hasta extremos insospechados. Tema aparte es mi nick, que viene de un apellido, y no de "desalmada", tema por el cual recibí en su momento singulares mails que preferí no responder. Nfer, allá en Bolivia los mejores apodos, y quizás más descriptivos, además de pintorescos por cómo suenan, son los que son en quechua (la traducción al español suele ser bastante mala). Lamentablemente eso ya se va perdiendo y pertenece más a la generación de mis padres o abuelos. Por lo general allá, entre amigos, los apodos son una forma de expresa cariño, aunque nunca faltan los zafados que se buscan uno medio cruel.

11

De: Anónima Fecha: 2006-12-06 14:29

JJ dices "una personalidad online no es tan diferente de una real" malambo dices: dudo de que "una personalidad on line deba ser siempre similar a la "real". Incluso en ámbitos no-digitales nuestros patrones de conducta suelen adaptarse al contexto. " La verdad es que estoy de acuerdo con los dos. Cuando decía que "actúo igual de Anónima que como yo misma", eso incluye, como dice malambo, que no siempre actúo igual en todas las circunstancias, ni en la nete ni fuera. Nat: pues la verdad es que esto existir existe, pero es diferente de lo otro y de alguna manera hay que distinguir. Tienes razón que lo de hablar del mundo real quizá no es lo suyo, pero a mi lo del mundo real (tm) me hace gracia :) Chivita: ¡Da gusto que te pases por aquí! Es cierto que quizá no debería hacerme eco de los que andan desafinando por el mundo...pero creo que a pesar de todo algún post más sobre este tema va a caer. off-topic: Me has recordado una canción que me gusta mucho: "desafinados" de Victoria Gastelo. Pero no encuentro la letra en la nete. Tengo por ahí el disco, así que cuando lo encuentré la pondré por aquí. Bonito nick lo de "Aire" pero lo de Chivita casi me gusta más, será porque te conocí así :) ¡Besitos a la de los plumeritos! Nfer Pues si es cierto que la nete nos permite relacionarnos con gente con la que nos sentimos muy afines a pesar de la distancia, las pantallas intermedias y los nicks. ¡Nos lo van a contar a nosotras! :) AlmadaPues si, es verdad que me está llevando tiempo contestar a los correos que he recibido después de irme. Aunque anoche al final decidí no contestar nada más que a la parte personal y dejar de hablar del resto en privado. Lo que se pueda discutir en público lo iré poniendo en estos rants, que me interesa conocer la opinión de más gente. Los temas directamente ligados a la web 2.0, pues ya no me importan la verdad. Allá ellos.

12

De: Anónima Fecha: 2006-12-06 14:40

Ha quedado una pregunta en el aire y es cual es la diferencia, por ejemplo, entre Anónima, Nfer y Chivita por un lado y JJ, Zifra y fernand0 por otro. De las personas tras los primeros nicks no es fácil saber los nombres y apellidos, ni las profesiones ni en qué empresa o lugar trabajan, si trabajan. De los segundos, con solo visitar su blog (y googlear un poco) se puede saber hasta el curriculum vitae. ¿Es eso relevante para una discusión sobre la funcionalidad y el uso de una web 2.0 cualquiera? ¿o para cualquier conversación en la blogosfera? Continuará en el próximo rant >: ) (que será a partir del Lunes que viene porque me voy de vacaciones estos días ¡yipiii!)

13

De: josemanuel Fecha: 2006-12-07 16:43

A modo de ejemplo, diré que con tan sólo dos "conversaciones virtuales" con Anónima sé un grupo de música que le gusta, cuántos hijos tiene y la fecha del cumpleaños de estos, además de que la ciencia tiene que ver con su profesión, estudios, o es una de sus aficiones. Es mucho más de lo que sé de personas que veo, toco y huelo casi todos los días, de las que sólo conozco el nombre. Eso no quita que piense que, para según que apuntes, prefiero saber el nombre y, a ser posible, ver la cara de quien los hace. Pero sólo es una preferencia personal, no una regla a seguir.

14

De: Nfer Fecha: 2006-12-08 00:37

josemanuel, con Anónima hemos hablado mucho (chateado, bah) y creo que nos conocemos más que con algunas personas que nos rodean. Pero nos separa un océano, y eso lo tenemos bien claro. Es difícil vernos "el brillo de los ojos" y nos gustaría a ambas, pero mientras tanto usamos este medio. Medio, como medio de comunicarnos,como puede ser el teléfono o la carta escrita en papel y entregada por un cartero. Si se crea un vínculo, cualquier medio es válido para comunicar. Llegado el caso y si se da la oportunidad,nos encontraremos cara a cara. De no darse la oportunidad, podremos seguir por cualquier medio nuestra amistad. Lo importante es el vínculo. El nombre puede ser importante según las circunstancias. Almada: sé de los apodos a que te refieres. Sé que sabes que en muchas culturas el nombre del crío se le da, no al nacer, sino luego del año de vida, cuando ya muestra ciertos rasgos de carácter: el nombre ha de significar algo propio de su personalidad. En cuanto a los apodos...muchas veces nos define mejor que un tratado completo sobre nuestra personalidad. Algo sé de los apodos vuestros, y aquí también los tenemos...y ¡vaya que son descriptivos! Cariñosos, irónicos,peyorativos o nada más (ni nada menos) que descriptivos, en dos palabras ya sabemos la persona que hay detrás del apodo. Porque el apodo, como la fama, nos antecede... AIRE ¡cierto! recuerdo ese nick tuyo...cuánta amistad sin vernos nunca a los ojos, ¿verdad, chiviplus? La seguimos!

15	De: descalza Fecha: 2006-12-09 14:24
No entiendo, ¿es que las criticas pierden valor si las dice un anónimo o las dice alguien de renombre? Tendrán que tener el mismo valor, en términos de justicia, ¿no?

16

De: granec Fecha: 2006-12-09 19:38

josemanuel me quito la mitad del verso. Pero para mi gusto le falto la conclusion: que en Internet, una cosa es ser anonimo y otra es ser desconocido. La respuesta a "Para que" es lo que interesa del anonimato. Pregunta que ni pienso hacer! ;-) Les debo los acentos y ASCIIs > 127 porque me da fiaka teclear con ALT-algo en mi teclado USA. Y me marean con un blog nuevo, no se si felicitarlas o mandarlas a freir churros.

17

De: Nfer Fecha: 2006-12-10 15:55

descalza, si es en la justicia del mundo real, depende (me parece que me estoy metiendo en un lío). Las denuncias "deben" ser firmadas (no_anónimas) en ciertos aspectos. En otros, vale una crítica o denuncia anónima para desatar un escándalo que quizá nunca sea aclarado. Y, en cuanto a que lo diga Mongorito Flores o el Presidente de la Berretum Corporation, no es lo mismo. Lamentablemente. Tal vez eso también ocurra en la nete. granec, tenés razón cuando decís qué busca alguien cuando no quiere ser conocido, que es diferente de ser anónimo. Y ya que estamos por freír churros o recibir felicitaciones ¿qué tal si miramos tu blog, y nos dices cómo comentar, que cada vez que lo intento me pierdo? ¡Besos!

18	De: granec Fecha: 2006-12-10 17:29
Uyuuyuuy, tengo bardo con el maldito botón "send" y ni me di cuenta. :-D

19

De: mahamara Fecha: 2006-12-11 03:28

Yo... pasaba a saludar en este nuevo blog :) Pero quién es ese yo que saluda? mahamara? taleb? javier? (oh! he dado uno de mis nombres! :P) No, es sólo un ser humano, que (por convenciones sociales) precisa de un nombre para que los otros no se sientan tan perdidos al relacionarse con él. Pero igual que en el mundo real (copy commons), el nombre no dice quien soy... me corrijo, aquí el nombre quizá dice más acerca de quien soy que mi nombre real. En ese mundo que se dice "verdadero", acaso soy mi nombre? o soy mis actos? El nombre que use allí, o aquí, sólo será importante en la medida que desarrolle una fama/reputación, sin embargo el yo que desarrolla esa fama no es el yo que seré después. Así como cambia mi persona, también cambiará mi nick, aquí... en el mundo real, no es tan fácil. En ese mundo real, cada día son más los anónimos con nombre, como si conocer el nombre de una persona fuera suficiente para saber como piensa o quien es. En este mundo que muchos se empeñan en llamar virtual, pero personalmente considero una ampliación, y una mejora, del otro, nos "conocemos" sólo a partir de relaciones un poco fugaces, pero que son válidas en el momento. Relaciones que no nos atan, porque no hay un nombre, una fama, una historia que mantener a cuestas. Las cosas son aquí más naturales. Y, por este último, aquí muchas veces somos más personas, y menos anónimos. Ya ni sé lo que digo, pido disculpas, efectos del yogurt en un cuerpo no acostumbrado a los lácteos :D Felicitaciones por el nuevo blog, y todas esas cosas que se dicen generalmente :P

20

De: Sofocador Fecha: 2006-12-13 05:50

Comparto lo expresado por malambo, nat y mahamara y aprovecho para saludar en este flamante emprendimiento, especialmente al nuevo integrante: exaequo Pero además debo decirles que personalmente avizoro un futuro cercano en que estas personalidades virtuales que asumimos tras un nick, muchas veces generarán mas emociones que las que tenemos en la vida real. Ya lo estoy viendo en algunos de mis contactos y amigos virtuales. Me pasó con Sofocador al que quise eliminar pero se resistió y finalmente se impuso más allá de mi necesidad de él. Les cuento: Hace unos meses recibí un correo de un tal Paulo F.G. “El sofocador de La Habana” (Al parecer un cantante de cumbias famoso por el Caribe) diciéndome que tenía registrado el nombre y me pedía que dejara de usarlo, pues “tu sofocador esta teniendo demasiada trascendencia en los buscadores y ha desplazado al mío” Como quizá ustedes saben yo nunca he ocultado mi personalidad real, ni consideraba importante ese nick, así que pensé en cambiarlo, y lo hice, como vieron por aquí también. Pero entonces descubrí que Sofocador tenía, sin que yo lo sospechara, una entidad real y pronto comencé a recibir correos preguntando el porqué del cambio, quejándose del nuevo nombre y reclamando por su reaparición. Finalmente debí resucitarlo para que todo volviera a la normalidad. (Lo siento por Paulo F.G.) Reflexionando un poco he descubierto que Sofocador sabe mucho más de plantas y otros temas que yo mismo, se expresa mejor, tiene muchos más amigos, obviamente es más “conocido” (Google es la prueba) y hasta por allí me parece que suele comentar en horarios en que yo duermo. En fin, tuve que rendirme ante la evidencia y hacerle un lugar en el cuartito del fondo, donde vive desde hace unos meses. Algunos estarán pensando en esquizofrenia, lo sé, pero yo creo que pronto veremos un mundo en que será difícil diferenciar entre personalidad real y virtual, o peor aún, entre hechos reales y virtuales. Algunos podrán llamarlo caos...pero yo creo que será un reto interesante. Un saludo a todos/das.

21

De: Anónima Fecha: 2006-12-13 10:51

josemanuel (13) A mi también me gustaría a veces saber más de las personas con las que hablo o a las que leo. A veces porque no entiendo sus motivaciones para decir algo y pienso que si conociera mejor a la persona que lo dice quizá lo entendería. A veces porque me gusta lo que dice una persona y me gustaría conocerla mejor. Pero como muy bien dices, es una preferencia mía, no una obligación suya informarme sobre todo aquello que despierta mi curiosidad. Estuvieron divertidas aquellas conversaciones. Me alegra leerte por aquí :) descalza (15) Pues si, a mi al menos me parece evidente. Por otra parte, la persona que se queja de mi anonimato, insisto, me conoce bien. Así que la queja no va porque sienta la necesidad de saber más de mí para entender mejor mis críticas o mis motivaciones al plantearlas. Lo que pasa es que es mucho más fácil atacar a quien te critica que analizar la justicia o injusticia de las críticas y atacar a alguien anónimo es más díficil ;) granec (16)Pues ya que estaba, he intentado ver que ponías en el "About me" de facdeiuser y es un botón que está ahí para decoración no más :) mahamara (19)Pues si. De lo de las famas/reputaciones incluso sin nombre y de los anonimatos con nombre va el siguiente rant, entre otras cosas... Sofocador (20) Curiosa historia la de tus cambios de nick. Pensé en preguntar, pero luego me acordé de la vez que le pregunté al asirio por su nick y me hizo notar que con mi nick, o falta de él, no estaba moralmente autorizada para hablar sobre el nick de nadie :D A mi también me parece interesante, pero no sé si será como lo de la maldición esa "¡Ojalá que vivas tiempos interesantes!"...

22

De: granec Fecha: 2006-12-13 18:34

Mujer, más allá de que no quiero llenarles el blog con explicaciones sobre cómo perderse en el mío pero "about me" es para meter algo sobre mi mismo, cosa que no hago porque no he desculado el modo de meterle páginas estáticas a Nucleus... aún Pero tenés toda la razón, por algún motivo el formulario para comentarios no mostraba el botón "Add comment" junto con el bonito captchismo que tanto te agrada. ;-) Por eso, solo por eso y justamente por eso cambié la piel del blog y ahora parece que hasta hay quienes se animan a comentar y todo aunque la nueva piel los llama "Write Reply", vaya que es raro el inglés. :-D

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